From: dbarry@stowmills.com <dbarry@stowmills.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 15, 1998
Can anyone provide some pro's and cons about NSP's in the key of D as opposed to F or G sets. I understand that many players use F sets, and some use G sets to enable them to mix in with other instruments, but why or why not a D set? Thanks in advance.

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998
From: John Liestman <liestman@wt.net>

IMHO, D pipes are lovely in their low pitched, richness but they have three problems:

• they are typically quiet enough to get lost in other instruments (G sets are noticeably better at cutting through a crowd usually).
• they only usually go up to F# (i.e. the one a half inch up the E string on a fiddle - so they can't play the range of a great many tunes in the key that fiddle players play them in). G sets go up to high B and therefore match fiddles and whistles and such in the range that most tunes cover.
• they are transposing instruments, so if you are reading music off the same page as a fiddler but learned to read music on the pipes on an F or G set, you will have to transpose on the spot. With a G set you just read the notes, play the notes and (reed willing) it comes out in tune without thinking about transposition.

G sets are better for playing with others if you intend to match them note for note. If you want to play harmony below the fiddles, the D set can be lovely. D sets are also really lovely alone or behind a singer.
G sets however have really close finger holes, so if you have fingers that are fatter than average at the tips, you just can't manage it.

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998
From: Ian Lawther <ian@northernlight.demon.co.uk>
People play F sets because they are the right sound for NSP. G sets were developed to allow playing with others who are stuck in G and D, the two keys most easily played on a G chanter. A D set would facilitate playing in D and A, which is less useful.
I have never really understood the development of the D set. Perhaps someone out there can add a bit of history. Of course the other useful bit of history is to know when and how everything folky seemed to get crunched into G or D. Books like O'Neill's and even Charlton have other key signatures, so why don't people play them.
But melodeon players are behind this!!!!

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 10:31:13 BST
From: Henry Ford <H.Ford@bath.ac.uk>
Subject: right sound for the nsp
Pipes makers make pipes to sound the way they want to - within certain obvious limits. To say that any sound is right is a bit too much of a value judgement. It is the sound that current ns pipers want. G sets often sound shrieky because the pipes-makers want the g sets that way. I have very reedy g sets and a reedy F set because that is the sound that I like. Not because it is right. I have had plummy reeds in my g set and it doesn't do what I want it to. So a choice is made, but not between right and wrong, but between what you like and what you don't.

From: Rob Say <R.J.Say@sheffield.ac.uk>
Subject: Re:(pick a pitch)
F is nominally the standard pitch and the chanter fits the fingers quite easily for most people. Some say that F is the 'best' tone, a discussion about tone is sure to develop from this thread.
G is brighter but also more strident and some hold it to be too raucous. If you have small fingers however you may find it easier than F. Playing in G also means you get to play with lots of other people without them complaining too much (You want to play a bagpipe and not get laughed at some time?). I have found it a wonderful incentive to play lots of tunes not normally associated with NSP and also to play a lot more often.
D is a more mellow tone with wide finger spacings so anatomically may be more suited. I am guessing that another member of this list will also make a point about the pitch of songs with respect to pipes. I no naught of this but apparently the D chanter is best suited to this purpose.
Generally if you want to play pipes with pipers pick F. If you want to play with others pick any of the three as long as you are aware of the limitations. I would choose G over D because it sounds brighter and fits dance music better but have been known to play 17 key F chanter to play in keys of Bb and C (fingering then becomes scales of C and G).

Other considerations: availability. G sets are comparatively recent and only a few makers do them with a long waiting list. F and D sets can be picked up second hand from makers a lot cheaper.

From: J M Say
Subject: Re:(pick a pitch)
 

On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Rob Say and various others, wrote bits of:

 > F is nominally the standard pitch and the chanter fits the fingers quite easily for most people. Some say that F is the 'best' tone 

Or F#. Or somewhere between the two. Most of the arguments for this pitch have already been aired, but F-F# is the pitch on which most development work has been done, as its been around the longest.
I have recently come to believe that near F# is the best pitch for solo piping, but I am currently managing this with an F chanter and 2 different reeds, one happiest at concert F, the other happiest (as is my chanter) at just under F#.
I have only heard 3 G chanters that I care for the sound of (and the one I occasionally use isn't one of them). They are strident and very useful for leading in a band or session - however if you're in a session and trying to learn, all your efforts/mistakes will be horribly apparent to everybody else. There is a school of thought which prefers this sound. Tastes differ - I dont.

 > If you have small fingers however you may find it easier than F.
I wouldn't have thought that would be a problem except for small children, for whom a concert pitch chanter allows an earlier start. However it is my personal opinion that it is not a child's instrument.

> Playing in G also means you get to play with lots of other people without them complaining too much
...and is therefore arguably more suitable for those who will do most of their playing in association with other instruments, and other traditions.

> D is a more mellow tone with wide finger spacings so anatomically may be more suited.
There are large fingered people about who find the spacing of the D chanter more comfortable. Small fingered people might find it difficult to reach.

> Other considerations: availability. G sets are comparatively recent and only a few makers do them with a long waiting list. F and D sets can be picked up second hand from makers a lot cheaper.
Who makes which pitches may be found on the makers pages:
http://www.nspipes.co.uk/nsp/ww5make.htm

I think Rob is a little optimistic on the 'a lot cheaper'! Certainly F sets are more common.

On the subject of D sets and their history - the first known D chanter was made by James Reid, and resurfaced about 1930 - when W. A. Cocks rediscovered it. This one is still being played in Northumberland.

Cocks wrote extensively about it in his pipemakers history, as he was obviously excited about it, but knew little of why it was made. I am in the research stages of expanding and updating this book for future publication. Colin Ross's theory is that the chanter was made and discovered to be very quiet, and there were reeding problems, so no drones were ever made by Reid.

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Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998
From: glenn baggott <g.baggott@biology.bbk.ac.uk>
Subject: pitch and put (up?)

Ian's correct for some of us: hand size and chanter size can be important. For those of us with small hands/and or fingers (usually called delicate) i.e. me and others, G chanters feel better under the fingers than F, and D I find uncomfortable. I once had on appro a C chanter from rosspipes@aol.com and found it impossible to play (where did it go?). And I can count more highland pipers than fingers on both hands who were unable to cope with the size of F chanters - why is it a high proportion of highland pipers have bananas for fingers

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:43:06 +1200
From: Helen Cook <hcook@taranaki.ac.nz>
Subject: RE: F G or D set?
What you really need is the lot!!!
Over the years I have managed to build up an F set with a plug in stock and G chanter, so that I can easily change between the two, and a D set. Of them all I use the D set least regularly, but I love its mellow tones and several of my friends say it is their favourite. I consider it a pure indulgence, an instrument that I own and play just for the sheer delight of it. One friend has ordered one so no doubt we will be getting it out more often soon to play the two sets together. That will be a treat.
The F set is my favourite to play on my own or with other pipers, it is both mellow and bright! The G chanter is a beauty and is as bright and accurate as you would expect of Ray Sloan's work, but I like the sound least of the three. However, living in NZ, I see other pipers rarely and I use the G chanter whenever I get the chance to play with other instruments and for that it is irreplaceable. It has opened the door to many a wonderful session that would have been hopeless otherwise.
I think the only way you could decide between the pitches is to listen to them all and then ask people when they play them, and decide what you wanted your set for. The G is the most difficult to play, being more particular about pressure, and the D is only easier if you can spread your fingers across the holes easily.
Others seem to have said what else I would have included, but I would agree with the comment that the D set is not much use in sessions. I know some people say that it is an alternative to the G set. I would not agree. It still transposes and is not capable of being heard, even by the player, in a busy session.

From: Henry Ford <H.Ford@bath.ac.uk>

With regard to the absence of drones for the Reid's D chanter - you don't really need special drones. I use the usual D drones, and a G drone tuned to A . I play Bewick/Peacock tunes on my D chanter which whilst it doesn't carry as well, is crisp and mobile, and as nobody else knows the tunes it is a good vehicle to display the chanter. I also put my border chanter in D to the same drones though I usually push the lower D drone right in to give a rasping sound which gives a little more oomph to the sound. I prefer the shuttle drones with the big bass sound, but I rarely get the chance to get them warmed up in a session. This way I can use one set of drones and use three chanters. I would have thought that Reid would have used his D chanter with a set of existing drones.

From: Rob Say <R.J.Say@sheffield.ac.uk>

My G chanter cost the same as a working set F pipes. To get a G chanter, one usually has to get it made. Playable F sets are regularly coming up second hand at 400 UKP whilst a new G *set* would cost significantly more 600+ UKP from anyone and more from a 'professional' source e.g. Sloan or Ross