From: "Rob Say" <R.J.Say@sheffield.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998
someone wrote:..there is validity to accepting that as the NSP's become increasingly popular in areas outside Northumberland the NSP's will become less of a regional instrument. New tunes from very different cultures will be played, which will eventually become standards and current traditional tunes will be re-phrased and rearranged by new and worldwide players.

This is most true. This is why you see books such as the one recently mentioned containing such diverse items as the east European stuff. One thing I have felt is that the NSP developed the style of tunes which we now call 'old'. Those variations with repeated patterns that are designed to give you RSI really do work on the instrument because of its specific development and history. The most notable element of this being the advent of the stopped end.
Keywork and chromatisisisisisisation (or whatever) was carried to its present day extreme a long time ago as a way of playing fiddle tunes which were otherwise inaccessible. Players such as Tom Clough and Billy Pigg learnt to use the keys to develop the 'traditional' sounds now associated with the pipes. Whilst I endeavour to play modern tunes (e.g. Swing Bridge Rant, Sutors Waltz) and tunes not of the Northumbrian idiom (Stones Rag, McHugh's Other Foot) these would be naught if I did not understand the older repertoire.
I agree development should be encouraged. But when teaching your kids/friends/family dog to use a barbecue, first teach them what it can taste like :)

Date: Wed, 13 May 98
From: Henry Ford <H.Ford@bath.ac.uk>
Keywork and chromatisisisisisisation (or whatever) was carried to its present day extreme a long time ago as a way of playing fiddle tunes which were otherwise inaccessible
I quite agree, but I wonder if it is just the fiddle they were trying to emulate. A difficult topic to explore, but I would like sometime to investigate the relationship between the popularity of instruments in a given area and the tunes typical of the style of that area. Early Northumbrian/border pipes tunes are very distinctive in structure, as Rob pointed out. The later 19'c/20thc tunes seem to be different in structure, being more chromatic - but I would like to know how much the concertina had to play in the development of these tunes rather than the fiddle. I know from playing with a good melodeon player and a good fiddler that we can all produce tunes that are bloody difficult for the other person to play, even without introducing difficult keys!.

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998
From: J M Say
in answer to Rob Say who wrote:
Keywork …was carried to its present day extreme a long time ago
Not so long.

• Bottom B/ 17 keys c.186~
• Bottom A c.1870-80
• Bottom G - c.1950-60 (not sure if this was /is playable, though). Playable version c.198~??

And of course is still going on. AFAIK the current 'extreme' is bottom G on an F chanter, as a response to the Coilsfield House/Snow on the Ben/Mrs Elder's Welcome/ Poppy Leaf type of tune. Its a great sound, and it *is*satisfying to be able to play these tunes without clumsy transpositions.

Players such as Tom Clough and Billy Pigg learnt to use the keys to develop the 'traditional' sounds now associated with the pipes.
In different ways though. TC took his family's repertoire and added 'keyed' variations, also preferring to use the flattened seventh (F natural in G) of the Border pipe rep. which of course is a key for us. (Try that on some of the semiquaver patterns -its *difficult*, but the sound is quite something else)
Billy took the tunes he learnt from TC (inter alia) and used the keys to form a new (??) way of decorating both them, and the other tunes he played/wrote. Both were developing the tradition, but in different ways.

and then Henry mused:
I quite agree, but I wonder if it is just the fiddle they were trying to emulate. A difficult topic to explore, but I would like sometime to investigate the relationship between the popularity of instruments in a given area and the tunes typical of the style of that area.
Well one starting point would be the known MSS etc:

• Fiddles were in Northumberland by 1689 (the Alnwick waits swapped from pipes to fiddle at this point)
• Henry Atkinson's fiddle MS is dated 1695 and contains some pipe tunes.
• That combination lasted over 100 years.
• There are a number of C18 fiddle MSS from S. Scotland containing pipish tunes, one from N'land (Vickers), and one dedicated Border pipes MS(Dixon)
• The Peacock book and the Graham/Reavely MS are of roughly similar date (~1800) and both contain mixtures of pipe variations/Scots fiddle tunes, adapted for pipes with no/few keys
• There is an MS from Felton compiled by a fiddler c.1820-40, showing annotations indicating a concertina was available to him.
• Melodeons first appeared around 1880-1900 (I think) but never seem to have caught on in a big way in Northumberland. (I know Will Atkinson played one for years, before anyone flames me, but it seems from what he says that this was another Scottish influence).
• J Accordions are a disgusting modern invention designed to put real musicians out of work J

but i would like to know how much the concertina had to play in the development of these tunes rather than the fiddle.
Increased accessibility to more of the population due to easier learning curve, perhaps? And what about the increased literacy, both musical and otherwise, of the C19? But I think most of the 'hornpipes' to which you refer were introduced as fiddle tunes. Leakage over the Border is a greater influence in Northumberland than leakage over the Tees - Durham always has been a buffer zone of one sort or another.

From: "Rob Say" <R.J.Say@sheffield.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998
186? is a long time ago in my humble (young) opinion. The 17 key version is the greatest range, when were the 14 key and the 11 key standards implemented 182? perhaps. The 11 key chanter is a definite move towards chromatisisisisation.

There is an MS from Felton compiled by a fiddler c.1820-40, showing annotations indicating a concertina was available to him.
Really? well it was probably an anglo then (two keys C and G with no accidentals), the English concertina patent came out in 183? I believe. As an upper crust instrument costing more than your average monthly earnings, I don't believe it would have been accessible at this time. The point is that the chromatic hornpipes so beloved of fiddlers are only really achievable on the English concertina...
How long was this manuscript in circulation? was it annotated after these dates?

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998
From: J M Say
186? is a long time ago in my humble (young) opinion
I stand corrected. When you're working with 350+ year old tunes, 1860-ish seems like yesterday.

How long was this manuscript in circulation? was it annotated after these dates?
Havent seen it, but I understand it was not in public circulation (property of one family), and the annotations were made by the fiddler who compiled it.
Was 'the flood of cheap German concertinas' to quote a record sleeve I seem to remember reading the Anglos then? Did the English c. only become common with the concertina bands which was turn of the century IIRC?

Date: Thu, 14 May 98
From: Henry Ford <H.Ford@bath.ac.uk>
I am really after the relationship between instrument and the music - how does the music structure depend on the nature of the instrument, and as new instruments come in to fashion, how do the tunes that are possible to play on that instrument influence the development of the pipes.
What might be interesting is to make a timetable of developments in the North-East, together with a list of dates of published/unpublished collections Then those who are interested can start making inferences.

The dates I'd be looking for are:

• Stopped end on Northumbrian Pipes,
• First Keys on Northumbrian pipes
• 11 keys
• 17 keys
• Concertina, Anglo
• Concertina, English
• Melodeon (less important perhaps).

NO other instrument seems to have taken hold in the North east, and I assume that the fiddle is a constant throughout
What about the place of church bands in the 18th century. Down here in Somerset they were common and an important part of rural musical life but I don't know about the North East.

Date: Thu, 14 May 1998
From: J M Say

Stopped end on Northumbrian Pipes?
Not known to date. There are 2 possibilities:

• It happened in the Peacock/Dunn etc etc circle of players prior to the keys - 1780-1800. My guess would be nearer the earlier date.
• There were parallel chanters which may have been blocked by something such as beeswax earlier than this (1750? - Dick?? this is one of your theories I believe)

• Date of earliest extant keyed chanter (4) 1805 - J. Dunn
• 11 keys - earliest extant 1811
• 14 keys - before 1837 R. Reid
• 17 keys - before 1874 J. Reid

All dates except the stopped end speculation from W. A. Cocks. I don’t recall which is the 1811 11-key, that seems very rapid development to me.

Concertina, Anglo
Concertina, English
Robert?? I think you said Anglos were 1820's and English were 1840?

Melodeon (less important perhaps).
I dont know exactly for Northumberland, but they are pictured in photos of bothy bands in NE Scotland, apparently played by the farm workers around 1900. So presumably they were widely available by then.

NO other instrument seems to have taken hold in the North east, and I assume that the fiddle is a constant throughout
It seems to be, but the repertoire changed to reflect the changing fashions in dancing etc etc. so in 1820-ish there are a lot of quadrilles, mazurkas etc, waltzes and hornpipes appeared later in the C19. In the late C18 there was quite a lot of leakage from the Scottish fiddle scene (the Gows, strathspeys etc)

What about the place of church bands in the 18th century.
I know there were at least two - Rothbury C17-C18, and Kirkwhelpington C18, but have no further info about them. I suspect the area wasn’t stable enough for them to develop here as they did in the South.