From: "Ewan Barker" <e.barker@ballarat.edu.au>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998
I am in the pleasant position of thinking about specifications of a set to be made for me by Colin Ross (when he works his way through his waiting list....). I have plans to have the standard low notes down to B, but I am wondering about where to have the C sharp and D sharp keys. I understand that the usual arrangement is to have the D sharp next to the little finger E key and the C sharp next to the thumb D key. However it seemed to me that it might be more logical from a fingering point of view to have them the other way around, and I think Colin told me that Reid used to use that arrangement.
The advantage of having the C# on the little finger and D# on the thumb is that the note sequences B C# D and (C#) D# E alternate fingers rather than require consecutive uses of the same finger.
Against this are several factors:
1) It is possibly easier and better to have all the double keys only a semitone apart, in terms of the mechanical construction of the keys.
2) The thumb is much quicker than the little finger anyway, and the standard arrangement has the more used C# with the thumb and the less used D# with the little finger.
3) It is non-standard.

I would greatly appreciate any comments on this. Does anyone have a set with the Reid arrangement? How do you feel about fingering complications with the standard arrangement? How does your thumb cope with lots of low notes?

From: "Philip Gruar" <david@gruar.clara.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998
All the 17 key chanters I have made have the low C# and D# keys in what Ewan calls the Reid arrangement. There are not all that many around, though there should still be three in Germany including a huge C chanter (are you out there, Rafael? and nice to see Hartmut is a member) and a few F and G chanters in England. I always thought that Reid's was the standard arrangement. Mike Nelson's published plans also show the C# paired with the E. It certainly makes for a long potentially fragile key pivoted way above the middle of its length, but I think the playing advantages far outweigh any (slight) practical problems. I'm shocked to learn that I have been making a "non-standard" pattern all this time - but thats what comes of living over 100 miles from Northumberland! The late, great, Joe Hutton's Errington Thompson set, and also an identical ivory chanter by Baty of Wark on Tyne, which I once restored, both have the C# key in its own slot on th "45 degree" position, directly above the G#, and therefore still paired quite closely with the E, but also more easily accessible with the right thumb if the player prefers. This means you can get the pivot pin in a better place, but that method really is more awkward to make. I'm not a virtuoso player, the chanter I play myself has only ten keys, so I welcome opinions from better players than me. I certainly think that the extra keys should never get in the way of the standard seven, and really we ought to have a "standard" arrangement for all keys, unless players really want customised eccentricities. Two further questions; Where do people like to have any really low keys below B, and which "standard" ones could be omitted to make room for them? In the 19 key set advertised for sale, where are the two extra high keys - three in each slot, or do we re-invent the Boehm system? I should really ask Colin this privately, but other players and makers may have different ideas.

From: Rosspipes@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998
The Reid key arrangement for the 17 key chanter is to pair the low C sharp with the E, and the D sharp with the D. This may well make it easier to play certain sequences of notes at the lower end of the chanter which is good from the players point of view but as a pipemaker one has the long C sharp key to fit along side the E key which can be a little difficult. When I studied the key arrangement on the Clough chanters I found that he had paired the D sharp( E flat) with the E, and the Csharp with the D.This gave a very logical pairing of the lower keys at a semi-tone apart and also easier to make. I assumed that it was also a good arrangement from the players point of view bearing in mind Tom Clough's playing record. I use this key pairing for all my 17 key chanters now for these two reasons.
The 19 key chanter in D that was for sale had the two top keys above the E and F sharp placed back and front of the chanter i. e. the G and A keys, and were about the same size as the other small keys to be played with the thumb and first finger of the left(top) hand.I could have used triple key blocks but went for the easier option.
If triple key blocks are used on the lower end of the chanter you can get down to low A and G without having to sacrfice some of the lower accidentals.
Back to Clough again and with his chanters that went down to low A he missed out the low D sharp.His pairings were E with C natural, D with C sharp, and low B with A. The C natural was as arkward as the Csharp on the Reid chanter. I rationalised the Clough arrangement to the 17 key chanter going down to B by placing the pairings as I have already said.
With my chanter that goes down to low G the triplings are, E withD sharp and C natural; D with C sharp (pairing only); and B with A and G. It would be possible to put another key with the D and C sharp to give a B flat or G sharp. Or change the B,A,G, arrangement to take in a low accidental. There is quite a bit of jiggling possible to customise key positions once you go into triple mode.
I think that is enough for now before I start to confuse myself with all these keys moving around the chanter.

From: "Ewan Barker" <e.barker@ballarat.edu.au>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998
This is fascinating. Is it more awkward to make because it's hard to find room for the extra key slots, or because it's hard to fit all the keys around each other in this arrangement, or some other reason?
Does this arrangement improve the fingering greatly for the player (apart from offering the opportunity of using either little finger or thumb)? Is it better for the little finger's low E to have the other key at the different angle? (I find that my little finger is sometimes rather erratic in hitting the two keys it is supposed to deal with now, and worry a little about surrounding it with extra obstacles.) And, come to think of it, does having the direction of travel of the key at the angle make it any harder for the little finger to use it anyway?
I realise that you mightn't remember the feel of the chanter well enough to be able to answer all these questions, but any comments would be most interesting.

From: Rosspipes@aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998
The pivot point for the low C sharp key comes on the D key block if it is to be at 45 degrees thus getting neatly in the way of the F natural key and support groove for the E key.This presents a real problem for the pipemaker which can be avoided by pairing it with the E or D key. the other 45 degree keys i.e. the Gsharp and B flat keys, are by themselves and are not getting in the way of any other keys or blocks The matter of accessibility is to do with the skill of the pipemaker in presenting the key end at the best angle for the little finger of the left hand as well as making it possible for the thumb ( that most prehensile digit) to also be able to depress if needed.
When God designed the 17 key chanter I am sure he did'nt mean us pipemakers to put the low keys on at 45 degrees. The pairing system was part of the divine plan that we were meant to discover I do beleive. This is not a matter of faith but of practical reality.
Here endeth the lesson on key placements according to me for the time being at least.

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998
From: Steve Meyer <steve@oseda.missouri.edu>
Isaiah 30:39
Ye shall have a song, as in the night [when]a holy solemnity is kept; and gladness of heart, as when one goeth with a PIPE to come into the mountain of the LORD
No mention of key placement, though. ;-)

From: "Philip Gruar" <philip@gruar.clara.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998
re. my earlier posting about Reid's (God's?) design of the lower chanter keys, which I currently follow, and Colin's about the alternative Clough pattern - God's true intention all along? - I made a mistake about the Baty chanter with the 45 degree C# key. Either nobody noticed, or everyone was too polite to say anything. I have just looked at the photos I took of it.
The key is indeed in the 45 degree position, in its own slot on the left, above the G# key, but of course it cannot be played with the left little finger, being far too short. If it were long enough it would cover up, and prevent access to the G#. (stupid of me not to think of this before rushing into print). It has to be played with the right thumb reaching across the F natural key. It is mounted, not in the D block (Colin is of course right about that messing up the F keys) but lower down in an extended B/C block, and arches up over and to the side of the F natural. A bit awkward to make, yes, but not impossible, and quite convenient to play I think
But don't anyone try to order that pattern from Colin, or he'll be cross with me for raising the issue - and I would'nt be too keen to make one either!!
As for God being a piper, see Matt Seattle's "Master Piper" for the definitive Gospel on that subject!

From: Rosspipes@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998
Thanks for the support Philip but I still think that Gods will was to pair the keys in semi-tones at the lower end of the chanter. Maybe it is more to do with a law of the Universe than the big man himself as we can't be sure He was a piper.

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998
From: Julia Say <Julia.Say@nspipes.demon.co.uk>
In an NPS magazine of the late 80's Nick Leeming (I think - I quote from memory) wrote in a review
'If God had intended us to tune our own chanters, why did He send Colin Ross and Mike Nelson to walk amongst us?'
The creator obviously realized the need, therefore (s)He must be a Piper (though possibly in possession of an out of tune - er, sorry – a traditionally tuned, set)
QED.
(No offence intended to those who take their supreme Being seriously; personally, I take the view that anyone inventing human beings must have a robust sense of humour. )

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998
From: Julia Say <Julia.Say@nspipes.demon.co.uk>
Is the Errington Thompson set like that too? I don't remember it as being particularly unusually keyed - although I knew far less about the matter when I last inspected it closely.
I think I'd like to see this....I'm going to have to make my own 'going abroad' chanter, that’s obvious, but I'd want to put a c natural in that position (to clear the back for the triple B A G combination). But then maybe it wouldn’t be possible with a triple on the back, not enough space. H'mmm.

From: "Philip Gruar" <philip@gruar.clara.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998
Yes it is. I've just looked at the photos of both chanters, and they are identical. Well there may be insignificant differences if one looks very closely, but I can't see any except that Joe's has a silver bush over the thumb hole where the ivory must have been worn away.
There may not be enough space if you do a triple for low G A & B, but it might depend on whether you also had a double key in the E slot. Errington T. and Baty kept the E key single but I suppose you will want to put either D# or C# there, depending on which divine plan you follow. I'm interested in this trend towards triple keys, as I'm doing a C chanter at the moment for John Clifford with a triple at the top end; - D, D# and F (nominal A, A# and C) as he wants to play C with the little finger. For the time being he just wants a single E on the other side, with the option of adding the C# later. At the bottom there will be seriously long low F key (nominal C natural) which he also wants to play with the left little finger. This will be the lowest note of the chanter - no nominal "B" actual E key at present, so I am pivoting it down on the "D" block with the nominal "E" key (actual A) having a little arch or kink in it to clear the pin. I saw this done on an Addison set once, and it seems the only solution, short of adopting pillars and rods, modern woodwind style. If you have any better ideas I love to hear them.

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998
From: Andy May <sam112@york.ac.uk>
I own Billy Pigg's George Armstrong 17 key which is an exact copy of a James Reid chanter , [complete with the bottom holes in the wrong place making them too sharp...]
It has the C sharp at 45 degrees, d paired with d sharp and all that. I find that I can play the C sharp with either my little finger or my thumb, but I do have very long little fingers.
The cheif advantage of this, which few people seem to notice, is that you can play the a sharp and also the g sharp with either your little finger or your thumb, depending on which tune you're playing. This can be really useful, especially the g sharp. Pairing a key with E moves these 2 little keys a bit out of reach of the little finger.
As for playing the c sharp, though, I reckon Reid put it in a daft place!!
I am a great believer in the Clough 16 key arrangement with a low A, but perhaps if me chanter was like that, I'd moan about that as well!!!